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Question regarding Resistances vs. Defenses

I know there is something called Physical Resistance.
I also know that most Fire skills (save some from Mummy and other chars), as well as Lineages are Physical.
There is also a difference between ítems giving "All Resistance +[Amount]" vs. those giving each Elemental Resistance some Amount.
Then, we have this change in the Penetration skills indicating that they work for Magic Attack when treating Elemental Resistance, and half the percentage to ignore the Physical Resistance itself when using Physical Attacks.

Then, several questions come to mind. I include my opinion for each question.
I included some pictures to make the points a bit clearer   

1.- Finally, Elemental Resistance only work against Mgic Attacks?
I think it should not, because removing amulet from equipment will increase a lot the dmg from Fire Physical skills. Also, the definition of the resistance does not mention Attack type, only Elemental Attribute.


2.- "All Resistance" includes the Physical Resistance?
There are items that only provide Fire, Ice, Thunder and Umbra Resistance. There are items providing All Resistance. There should be a reason for this.
You can find that there is "All Resistance" and every separated element as well in Oracle Pendant. Mispelling only? Don't think so. Wouldn't it be easier putting "All Resistance +900" again?


3.-  Why there are two different penetrations in the ELemental Penetration Skills? Did this change and now all Physical Attacks are affected only by Physical Resistance and Defense?

Resistances work for Physical and Magical Attacks by definition, at all times. [Pentrating Attack] works for both Magic and Physical when activated (it reduces both defenses regardless the attack type...). It's strange to make necessary to ignore also something called Physical Resistance.


4.- If 3.- talks of separated Resistances, how are Resistances applied for the Physical Skills?
The Physical Skills text states that they do some [Element] damage, and to that amount you add the percentage from Physical attack, therefore the whole damage is defined as [Element]. Is that false also?


5.- What are the Magic and Physical Defense? Amount? Rating? Percentage?
It would seem that the Defense is not an amount, but I think that it depends on the damage received, maybe logarithmic.
If the damage is 2 times the defense, for instance, it will do around 30% the total damage and to this final damage the Resistance shall be applied (or viceversa, dunno).
If the damage is 10 times the defense, maybe it deals double the attack damage... and so on.

Thanks for your attention.
[ This post finally by Yawgmoth on 2014-11-02  12:53 edit ]

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I'm pretty sure these theories about 'separated damages' come from the translation from Chinese.

If you see from below images:


The first is the 'new' syntax for the skills. It makes think that first there are some 2800 Magic damage and then it 'increases' the Magic attack of the caster by 140%. I think you know it actually deals 140% of the Mag. dmg.of the caster. Then, 'Attributes' defines this skill as Thunder.


Then the second image treates the same way for Physical Damage, but here is much more 'separated', including an Elemental part inside the skill, then the 'Attibutes' say that the damage is Physical.



But the third and fourth shows the nearest translation from Chinese, adding the word 'plus' to the sentence (I believe the "Magic" attribute is a wrong translation).


Then we have these 'new' skills recently unlocked in the Updates do have the old wording, also summing up the Damages and then treating the whole as element.

I remember some screenshots from threemeinter IGN Xenobia showing in the last reply the Cursed Claw (Legendary ). I believe that doing more damage than the whole damage only means that when the resistance is negative, the damage increases. And also, when the defense is too much lower than the attack (after applying or not the 'Penetration') Clearly the rear targets in the pictures had either double Dark Resistance, or Janelle had too much 'Ignore Dark Resistance' making it negative for the enemies, and there also he indicates that adding Dark Damage only (and not Physical) increased the attack a lot more than 7200 dmg.

I believe the Damage is calculated in a complete way, it doesn't sound logic to me that the attack is separated and goes to different defenses. I think Attack and Defense are wholes integrated by several parts:

Attack (when clicking 'Attack' button, and/or DS using no skills in the skill bar):
1.- 100% of Magic/Physical dmg, according to the one that says (Main).
2.- Elemental Attribute: +25% of another element. 'Another?'. It rather sums 25% of all elements.
3.- Extra Damage: number. +Additional dmg.

This damage would be pure physical or magic.

Skill/Lineages:
1.- Magic/Physical. Sums the indicated percentage of Mg/Phy attk.
2.- Elemental Attribute: Sums the damage written in the skill with the 100% corresponding element damage in the DS/Char attributes.
3.- Extra Damage: number. +Additional damage.

This damage has Element (unless otherwise stated in the skill).

Then, for the Defense and Resistances and Absorption:

1.- Resistances: They will decrease (or increase if negative after applying 'Ignore [Element/Physical] Resistance') the whole Damage of corresponding Element according to percentage. If the Damage is Physical type, I'm not sure if a) the remaining damage is decreased by the Physical Resistance, b) Physical Resistance only works with non-elemental attacks or c) all Physical attacks go only through Physical Resistance regardless its element.

2.- Defense: If 'Breach' didn't trigger, the Remaining Dmg. will be applied to the Defense according to attack type, or half of it if 'Penetration' triggers. Damage will be reduced by some formula, but I think it also increases if the defense is too low (too many times low).

3.- Absorption and Barriers: Very strangely, but I pressume the barrier work and dmg absorption work after the damage is resolved (a Barrier should work before, like a shield, Absorption is OK to work after). That would explain why the Barriers sometimes lasts some turns sometimes, in tanks, because if applied before for sure will break them in single attack.

Things I fail to see:

- Dark Faith sums Dark Damage which will increase Dark Skills. Also will help to increase more by ignoring some Dark Resistance before even applying the damage. That does not imply the 'separation' of Element and Phy/Mag.

- The 'Magic Resistance' is present in the Dark Moon Goddess Lineage, but nowhere else that I've checked. Anyway this could be taken as evidence for it to exist. But even though, if it's included in the 'All Resistance', why bother with Elemental Resistance? Elemental damage is very few compared with the Mg/phy. I think it's applied differently.

- How is the Fire Damage being applied? Most skills (except few ones from characters) are Physical. I made some tests with the White Bears in the Abyssal Trial 17-6 and I got the following:
  - When no Amulet, Dmg received is almost doubled (the Fire res. got halved).
  - When halving Defense, Dmg increased around 65%.
  - When no Amulet while halved Defense, Damage increased around 55%.
  - Vamp with 40k def and 66% Fire Res. receive less dmg than FD at 50k def and 87% Fire Res.

I think from arquerex' theory that this increased damage is related with the lvl, it seems that a higher lvl resistance covers less dmg. But anyway, I keep thinking the damage as a single entity, just don't know how it comes to resolve against the dual Element and Mag/Phy res. Maybe is just because the Ignore All Enemy's Resistance is messing everything up.

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Reply 34# post

Skills are for each servitor, independent. If one has HP Training, only it will get more HP.
'Applies to all Dark Servitors' mean that the scroll can be used in any servitor regardless its Elemental Type.

Miracles give bonuses to all servitors and character.

Skills are extracted only through Memory Crystals, obtained from Wilderness, Page 2, Memory Stele map. Very very expensive so think carefully when use them.
[ This post finally by Yawgmoth on 2014-12-02  21:14 edit ]

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Wilderness Page 3, Map Elf King Tower.

The puzzle gives you Fruit of the World Tree. One of them changes Normal (White) to Elite (Blue). Three of them are fused with 98 diams, forming Heart of the World Tree. It changes from Elite to Vassal(Gold).

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Apparently yes, the amount of Awakened statuses *5 matches the max level of lineages (maybe except the initial char ones), and it is really simple... but also it is related with the word besides the "Power of the..." sentence. This maybe Works in case they develop some strange lineages...

For example, Blade Mantis says 'Power of the Blade Mantis Lineage (Master)'. If you are familiar with the skills, is the same word that appears in a Level 5 skill. Therefore, it has 4 levels over the 'Primary' level, which in Lineages is at level 10. and goes in steps of 5 levels. So, a 'Primary' Lineage will have 10 levels, and Blade Mantis lineage has 10+4*5 = 30 levels.

It's better I put whole list:

Primary: 10 levels.
Advanced: 15 levels.
Specialist: 20 levels.
Elite: 25 levels.
Master: 30 levels.
Great Master: 35 levels.
Lord: 40 levels.
Epic: 45 levels.
Legendary: 50 levels.
Demogorgon: 55 levels.

I believe that now there is no way to increase the maximum level of a Lineage excepting the initial two the character comes with (which also can't be removed).

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If you remove glacier breath from the FD, of course the COld Faith will not level the frost net since it states that it gives level to glacier breath skill.

However, having the three skills is fine as you can get +6 level in eternal ice with the shop point scroll.

About the Elite servants that evolved to Vassal, unless stated you can only level their active skills with DS Appraisal and Legacy Crystals. Anyway you can reach lvl 7 with most skills (5+2).

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